As if the initial column wasnt brilliant enough, the below exchange between you and JM is pure joy. I feel as if I've sneaked into a gentleman's club and am sat pretending to read whilst listening in to a private conversation. Ed Harcourt was right, the birds will sing for us...
My old man used to do the door at Ronnie's in the Sixties and early Seventies. He had a massive Be-Bop collection.
In later life, he moved to Ireland to escape HMRC clutches. When he died it was impossible for us to get his record collection back.
I handed my brother a wants list and he managed to rescue a few things for me. Mainly a bunch of Diz & Bird 10-inchers (easy to transport), a few Coleman Hawkins things and a particular favourite of mine, Sonnie Rollins early-ish Bossa exploration, "What's New?".
I think he did make a couple of half-arsed attempts in that direction. He couldn't write for shit though. Although good for a pub yarn or two, that's for sure.
Just brilliant deep thought and analysis. I love the exuberance and energy of bebop and especially Charlie Parker and I love the elegance and beauty and sensitivity of miles Davis, bill Evans, cannonball adderley and John Coltrane. I listen to the latter more than bebop. And I can’t abide New Orleans jazz. I was fortunate enough to interview Dizzy Gillespie in 1980 when he had become a Bahai. A very lovely, gentle and thoughtful man. Another mark of distinction he carried was that he was the first cool person on the planet. Look at photos of the pre- Gillespie/ bebop era and there are no cool-looking people. Except possibly Robert Mitchum. A mixture of quietly audacious sartorial style and a relaxed attitude. It was possibly the drugs but definitely an emanation of popular black culture.
We can agree on the one and not the other. I haven't liked the Kinks since about 1972. I thought Celluloid Heroes was a major embarrassment, and then those ghastly concept albums, after which I stopped even bothering.
I kind of agree with you. I do like some of the "concept theater" albums, but compared to their 1960s era, which is the greatest. But that's OK, it's amazing how Ray Davis (and Dave) can come up with masterpiece after masterpiece. After that, they can do anything they want. Their greatness was formed in the 60s, and what they did afterward is "whatever."
I never intended to impugn bebop as an art form (or, more accurately, genre), but rather only to express why it doesn't work for me, an admitted lowbrow who doesn't...get baroque music (or Rothko's paintings) either. As for bebop imitating black speech, well, I think the more apt (apter?) analog is the speech of those voiceover artists whose specialty is speaking 140,000 syllable per second, and who are called in when a radio spot needs extensive terms-'n'-conditions read out in the closing seconds.
Please see my remark to my Facebook acquaintance TB below, Simon. With each new essay, I become more convinced you're the GOAT. But who(m) you callin' prickly? :
I figured that since you didn't "get" bebop, I had free hand to theorise without prickles. But your theory's good too. An interesting extra point is that Miles Davis came from a middle class family, father a dentist, and they didn't speak at home that way. So he was probably faking his macho matey-ness from the beginning. Really appreciate your complement but it's a daunting thing to live up to.
I certainly intended to inflict no discomfort, Simon. But I believe avidly in credit where due. I wish, during my own (richly undeserved!) salad days, I’d been a tenth the writer you are .
Speaking of black speech, it occurred to me recently that in a shouting match, black men will often use the top of their range, whereas an anthropologist would probably expect one man trying to intimidate another to try to rumble, rather than screech. I go into a higher register myself when furious, as it’s what Mom and Pop did. When I listened to the NPR interview with Mr. Rollins yesterday, I was struck by how seldom he went up to the saxophonists’s equivalent of the top of the guitar neck. But on one occasion he did, he played a note around four octaves above the top of Mariah Carey’s range. Only I and dogs could hear it!
If only the top of Mariah Carey's range was as easily inaudible to most of us. I think what made that speech in Fences so powerful was the way Denzel Washington did what you're talking about - loud enough to be intimidating, soft enough to make you afraid it could get worse. I can think off very few occasions when Charlie Parker went beyond that well controlled mid-point.
I share your apparently great affection for La Carey's musical stylings, and honestly envy your appreciation for CP and others. As I used to assure Rolling Stone readers who were incredulous that I could detest Led Zeppelin, if you love something I do not, you're the winner in the grand schame of things, the one with a longer list of things that give him pleasure.
That said, i cannot allow your implicitly benificent invocation of Ed Sheeran to go unfrowned-at. Ed is the British Tom Petty, an unobjectionable mediocrity who's achieved acclaim far out of proportion to his negligible gifts. He isn't fit to change Ed Harcourt's guitar strings, though i will conclude that he is preferable to Jedward.
Miles Davis’s and Sinatra strong influences .sinartra with his immaculate phrasing and miles Davis with his modern grasp of space and abstraction
As if the initial column wasnt brilliant enough, the below exchange between you and JM is pure joy. I feel as if I've sneaked into a gentleman's club and am sat pretending to read whilst listening in to a private conversation. Ed Harcourt was right, the birds will sing for us...
My old man used to do the door at Ronnie's in the Sixties and early Seventies. He had a massive Be-Bop collection.
In later life, he moved to Ireland to escape HMRC clutches. When he died it was impossible for us to get his record collection back.
I handed my brother a wants list and he managed to rescue a few things for me. Mainly a bunch of Diz & Bird 10-inchers (easy to transport), a few Coleman Hawkins things and a particular favourite of mine, Sonnie Rollins early-ish Bossa exploration, "What's New?".
Save for cocktail hour....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvcc7xNXVfA
"The Door at Ronnie's" - the perfect title for a book on Soho in the 60s - but sounds like your dad never wrote it. Pity.
I think he did make a couple of half-arsed attempts in that direction. He couldn't write for shit though. Although good for a pub yarn or two, that's for sure.
"So I said to Miles...." etc.
LOL.
there can't be many people of importance in music life, or British life, who didn't walk through those doors at least once.
Very true.
The old man got roped into The Jimi Thing when they re-opened the case back in the Nineties.
Hendrix turned up at the door.
Jimi: "Hey, man. Is it OK if I come in and jam?"
My old man: "Wait a minute. I'll go and ask Ronnie".
Just brilliant deep thought and analysis. I love the exuberance and energy of bebop and especially Charlie Parker and I love the elegance and beauty and sensitivity of miles Davis, bill Evans, cannonball adderley and John Coltrane. I listen to the latter more than bebop. And I can’t abide New Orleans jazz. I was fortunate enough to interview Dizzy Gillespie in 1980 when he had become a Bahai. A very lovely, gentle and thoughtful man. Another mark of distinction he carried was that he was the first cool person on the planet. Look at photos of the pre- Gillespie/ bebop era and there are no cool-looking people. Except possibly Robert Mitchum. A mixture of quietly audacious sartorial style and a relaxed attitude. It was possibly the drugs but definitely an emanation of popular black culture.
This is very insightful. I have been going through a Charlie Parker phase. Thank you for your thoughts here.
Charlie Parker phases are very good things to have - I'm planning another one soon
Can we not agree, Tosh, that there's no one on earth writing more beautifully and insightfully about music than Simon?
John - I'm never comfortable with complements, but to show my respect for your own writing and opinions, I'll refrain from disagreeing
I have been a Simon fan for a long time now. And of course, The Kinks rule!
We can agree on the one and not the other. I haven't liked the Kinks since about 1972. I thought Celluloid Heroes was a major embarrassment, and then those ghastly concept albums, after which I stopped even bothering.
I kind of agree with you. I do like some of the "concept theater" albums, but compared to their 1960s era, which is the greatest. But that's OK, it's amazing how Ray Davis (and Dave) can come up with masterpiece after masterpiece. After that, they can do anything they want. Their greatness was formed in the 60s, and what they did afterward is "whatever."
Fascinating, thank you!
The ego and folly of Jon Mendelssohn are insufferable.
Aah - but as a manager of rock stars I've come to see those two qualities as focal points around which art can build itself.
I never intended to impugn bebop as an art form (or, more accurately, genre), but rather only to express why it doesn't work for me, an admitted lowbrow who doesn't...get baroque music (or Rothko's paintings) either. As for bebop imitating black speech, well, I think the more apt (apter?) analog is the speech of those voiceover artists whose specialty is speaking 140,000 syllable per second, and who are called in when a radio spot needs extensive terms-'n'-conditions read out in the closing seconds.
Please see my remark to my Facebook acquaintance TB below, Simon. With each new essay, I become more convinced you're the GOAT. But who(m) you callin' prickly? :
I figured that since you didn't "get" bebop, I had free hand to theorise without prickles. But your theory's good too. An interesting extra point is that Miles Davis came from a middle class family, father a dentist, and they didn't speak at home that way. So he was probably faking his macho matey-ness from the beginning. Really appreciate your complement but it's a daunting thing to live up to.
I certainly intended to inflict no discomfort, Simon. But I believe avidly in credit where due. I wish, during my own (richly undeserved!) salad days, I’d been a tenth the writer you are .
Speaking of black speech, it occurred to me recently that in a shouting match, black men will often use the top of their range, whereas an anthropologist would probably expect one man trying to intimidate another to try to rumble, rather than screech. I go into a higher register myself when furious, as it’s what Mom and Pop did. When I listened to the NPR interview with Mr. Rollins yesterday, I was struck by how seldom he went up to the saxophonists’s equivalent of the top of the guitar neck. But on one occasion he did, he played a note around four octaves above the top of Mariah Carey’s range. Only I and dogs could hear it!
If only the top of Mariah Carey's range was as easily inaudible to most of us. I think what made that speech in Fences so powerful was the way Denzel Washington did what you're talking about - loud enough to be intimidating, soft enough to make you afraid it could get worse. I can think off very few occasions when Charlie Parker went beyond that well controlled mid-point.
I share your apparently great affection for La Carey's musical stylings, and honestly envy your appreciation for CP and others. As I used to assure Rolling Stone readers who were incredulous that I could detest Led Zeppelin, if you love something I do not, you're the winner in the grand schame of things, the one with a longer list of things that give him pleasure.
That said, i cannot allow your implicitly benificent invocation of Ed Sheeran to go unfrowned-at. Ed is the British Tom Petty, an unobjectionable mediocrity who's achieved acclaim far out of proportion to his negligible gifts. He isn't fit to change Ed Harcourt's guitar strings, though i will conclude that he is preferable to Jedward.
Aaah - Jedward - that's a wonderfully tactful way of bringing even the most vigorous arguments to a moment of agreement.